We have finally finalized our renovation details last Saturday, and I am so thankful for that. We have had many issues, mainly because the MIL insisted that we let the relative do the carpentry work. It was so frustrating for us, and led to a whole week of arguments which left all of us really tired. MIL initially said that we can look around and also consider the relative before choosing. But when she knew that we were going to finalize things with another contractor, bypassing the relative, she spent a whole week trying to persuade us to use the relative. It wasn't pretty. We had to give in to appease the MIL, and to me, it's a lose-lose situation and was very unpleasant for all involved.
We originally wanted to use the relative for our renovations, since he offered to do it for us at minimal profits. Cost was an issue as we're on a budget. We did look around before going to him, just to get more suggestions and know the market rates. But in the end, we decided not to let him do our renovations due to many reasons.
April Week 2: We went to discuss the works needed, which were pretty straightforward since we were already sure about of what we wanted.
April Week 4: He finally came back with the quote, with quite a few items missing or extra.
May Week 1: We went down to discuss and adjust the quote, waited for over 2 hours. Discussion fell flat as he wasn't willing to negotiate and insisted that he has never done any project with such low profit margins. He also said that he did not want to do our business nor earn our money.
May Week 3: No news.
An item in contention is this fee for dismantling of plastic partition in toilet. We were charged $320 for it and find it unreasonable since some neighbours have dismantled it by themselves easily. Husband argued with him, and he insisted that it's reasonable because of the manpower and disposal required. Husband wasn't happy about it and told him that he will do it himself instead. Plumbing works were also around $1300, which we find really expensive. I was also unhappy about the price of this hob - he charged $310 while I was quoted $215 including delivery from outsiders. List prices in shops were also $280. And he said that we'll be given a good price as he's a distributor! In short, both of us weren't very happy about how things went. The relative also agreed to adjust the quote accordingly, and we took a wait-and-see attitude.
After that unpleasant meeting with the relative, I suppose both of us knew in our heart that it's not working out. The quote wasn't cheap, there was no room for discussion and he was taking very long to get back to us. Reviews online was less than flattering, and we really felt that there will be delays and many complications with no recourse if we were to use him. Perhaps that's why many people do not encourage using relatives for renovations to avoid such issues.
We started meeting with a few other contractors after that meeting, mostly contractors who were recommended from renotalk or friends. All of the quotes (all in) were cheaper than what the relative quoted. Moreover, the relative's quote does not include haulage(~1k), electrical works (~3k), and the top-up for smaller and more expensive tiles(~1k).
After 2 weeks of meeting contractors, both of us chose the contractor whom we were most comfortable with and had experience in similar themes. Everything was effortless and enjoyable. The first time I called him, he immediately made an appointment to view the site. He was early, and I like that because being on time tells you something about a person. He came with a measuring tape and a small notebook, and talked quickly, moving around efficiently. He went around, giving us suggestions and telling us what was feasible and what was desirable. He didn't even measure much things nor took down any notes! It was apparent that he's very experienced and knew what he was doing. It took about an hour and he left, promising to give us a quote.
In 3 days or so, I received a round-figure quote from him. Within the week, the detailed quote was also sent to me. We've more or less decided on him when we met him again at the site again 3rd week of May. We made some adjustments to our required works, and he came back with the quote in a day.
By now, the MIL found out that we are on the verge of confirming the contractor and started insisting that we use the relative, at least for the carpentry because he had his own factory and offered internal laminates. We weren't keen as we preferred one contractor coordinating everything and really would like to avoid any more negotiation and complications with the relative. The MIL called me and spoke non-stop for a whole 30 minutes till the husband took the phone from me. No matter what I said, she simply kept insisting that we let the relative do our carpentry. Then there's the 'don't give her face' talk. She even told me things like all contractors are out to con me, that they are only nice now because they want my business. Once I sign up with them, they'll not be as nice anymore. It's like we are really naive little kids who know not we were doing. And seriously, of course I would give my business to people who really want it instead of people who does not want it right?!
We did not want to use the relative because:
1. He does not seem to want our business, no follow-up on the adjustments required after 3 weeks.
2. We were concerned about delays, complications and lack of recourse. See 1.
3. We prefer one contractor overseeing everything.
4. We were really tired of waiting and negotiating as we have made no headway the past 5 weeks.
5. We were supposed to be quoted at minimal profit, but it does not seem to be the case and it's not worth the trouble.
It was impossible to decline, no matter how hard we tried. I've never seen the husband so angry nor so fierce in the past 8 years together. In his words, 'it's like world war three is coming'. So he spent the week arguing with the MIL day and night, and he finally caved in and ask the relative for a quotation by the next day based on the carpentry work we required. The main point in contention is PVC vs laminates insides. MIL insists that PVC is bad and poisonous, although we really don't care nor mind.
We did get a 'quotation' the next day, which was pretty much exactly the same quote which was given to us 3 weeks ago, without any adjustments! It pissed me off, because we waited 2 hours to discuss the adjustments needed! After 3 weeks, we were still at the same place and no adjustments were done. Moreover, the husband asked explicitly for the quotation of that few carpentry items, but got a huge excel sheet instead. I'm not sure what went wrong, but it really wasn't working and both us us were really upset.
After receiving the 'quote' I wrote an email to all parties involved, asking for their understanding and respect no matter what decision we made. We decided not to use the relative afterall, since again, no quote was given for the carpentry and it wasn't cheap. The discounted quote came to 35k, but did not take into account any adjustments we wanted, does not include haulage and electricity nor the more expensive tiles It wasn't worth the trouble at all, and it's impossible to get our renovation done smoothly at this rate. It was not possible to go back to him - imagine how long more would it take to finalize all our works required. I shudder when I think of going through everything again. The husband called the relative and he seemed alright with it. Yet, the MIL continued arguing with the husband and insisted that they will match our contractor prices. *sigh. Both of us were really weary now, and I was like 'whatever, just let him do it if he can match the prices'. We were simply so sick of this - something so simple could be made so complicated with everyone feeling frustrated and upset. What's the point?
In the end, we drafted a contract with our exact requirements and price for them to sign within the same day. If we can't come to an agreement by Friday, we will confirm things with our contractor by Saturday. They did agree to our contract and we will only pay when we are satisfied with the works. The terms ain't bad and we have nothing to lose in a way, but it was really an unpleasant experience. The relative still commented that our contractor prices were expensive, although I don't think that it's fair to compare his own factory prices to our contractor who uses a sub-con. Similarly, our contractor's wet works were so much cheaper. But anyway, this was not solely about prices and our contractor's all-in price (at a healthy margin) was about 20% less compared to his price (at a supposedly minimal margin).
Meanwhile, our contractor, K was very understanding about our situation. He gave us 2 quotations, one with and one without carpentry. He even advised us to let the relative do it to avoid trouble. He also answered all my enquires about the materials he uses to achieve the look we wanted, although he knows that he'll not be doing our carpentry. He still volunteered to go down and coordinate things with our carpenter if needed. *sigh. Working with him is really enjoyable and effortless, and I'm really thankful to have found such a great contractor.
So, we finally did confirm everything by Saturday as the husband was flying off on Sunday. We marked out the electrical points and handed the flat to our contractor. We should be all set to start very soon!
I hope and pray that everything goes well from now on. I pretty much trust K to do our renovations well after seeing his workmanship and befriending his previous customers. Worst case senecio is having problems and delays with our carpentry and not having them done before the 7th month. Oh well, since I can't anticipate and prevent anything, I'm just going to enjoy the process and excitement for now. I'm totally relying on the husband to settle the carpentry side of things, and I wish not to be involved.
I guess one big take away from this saga is to avoid doing business with closed ones. Perhaps we shouldn't even have agreed to approach him at all.
But most importantly, both of us know that issues and arguments like this will not be the last when the MIL has such a character and insist on putting her leg into everything we do for whatever reason.
Thank god for giving us our own place! Otherwise, we probably wouldn't have got married and I'd rather stay single and buy my own place at 35 than move into his place. I totally anticipated issues like that and it's going to be pathatic if I'd rather stay out than go 'home'. *sigh. Why is everything so difficult? Sometimes it really feels like our lives is like a drama. It really takes all my faith and inner strength to stay sane during times like this.
For now, I'm going to immerse myself in renovations and enjoy this exciting period with the husband. =)
We originally wanted to use the relative for our renovations, since he offered to do it for us at minimal profits. Cost was an issue as we're on a budget. We did look around before going to him, just to get more suggestions and know the market rates. But in the end, we decided not to let him do our renovations due to many reasons.
April Week 2: We went to discuss the works needed, which were pretty straightforward since we were already sure about of what we wanted.
April Week 4: He finally came back with the quote, with quite a few items missing or extra.
May Week 1: We went down to discuss and adjust the quote, waited for over 2 hours. Discussion fell flat as he wasn't willing to negotiate and insisted that he has never done any project with such low profit margins. He also said that he did not want to do our business nor earn our money.
May Week 3: No news.
An item in contention is this fee for dismantling of plastic partition in toilet. We were charged $320 for it and find it unreasonable since some neighbours have dismantled it by themselves easily. Husband argued with him, and he insisted that it's reasonable because of the manpower and disposal required. Husband wasn't happy about it and told him that he will do it himself instead. Plumbing works were also around $1300, which we find really expensive. I was also unhappy about the price of this hob - he charged $310 while I was quoted $215 including delivery from outsiders. List prices in shops were also $280. And he said that we'll be given a good price as he's a distributor! In short, both of us weren't very happy about how things went. The relative also agreed to adjust the quote accordingly, and we took a wait-and-see attitude.
After that unpleasant meeting with the relative, I suppose both of us knew in our heart that it's not working out. The quote wasn't cheap, there was no room for discussion and he was taking very long to get back to us. Reviews online was less than flattering, and we really felt that there will be delays and many complications with no recourse if we were to use him. Perhaps that's why many people do not encourage using relatives for renovations to avoid such issues.
We started meeting with a few other contractors after that meeting, mostly contractors who were recommended from renotalk or friends. All of the quotes (all in) were cheaper than what the relative quoted. Moreover, the relative's quote does not include haulage(~1k), electrical works (~3k), and the top-up for smaller and more expensive tiles(~1k).
After 2 weeks of meeting contractors, both of us chose the contractor whom we were most comfortable with and had experience in similar themes. Everything was effortless and enjoyable. The first time I called him, he immediately made an appointment to view the site. He was early, and I like that because being on time tells you something about a person. He came with a measuring tape and a small notebook, and talked quickly, moving around efficiently. He went around, giving us suggestions and telling us what was feasible and what was desirable. He didn't even measure much things nor took down any notes! It was apparent that he's very experienced and knew what he was doing. It took about an hour and he left, promising to give us a quote.
In 3 days or so, I received a round-figure quote from him. Within the week, the detailed quote was also sent to me. We've more or less decided on him when we met him again at the site again 3rd week of May. We made some adjustments to our required works, and he came back with the quote in a day.
By now, the MIL found out that we are on the verge of confirming the contractor and started insisting that we use the relative, at least for the carpentry because he had his own factory and offered internal laminates. We weren't keen as we preferred one contractor coordinating everything and really would like to avoid any more negotiation and complications with the relative. The MIL called me and spoke non-stop for a whole 30 minutes till the husband took the phone from me. No matter what I said, she simply kept insisting that we let the relative do our carpentry. Then there's the 'don't give her face' talk. She even told me things like all contractors are out to con me, that they are only nice now because they want my business. Once I sign up with them, they'll not be as nice anymore. It's like we are really naive little kids who know not we were doing. And seriously, of course I would give my business to people who really want it instead of people who does not want it right?!
We did not want to use the relative because:
1. He does not seem to want our business, no follow-up on the adjustments required after 3 weeks.
2. We were concerned about delays, complications and lack of recourse. See 1.
3. We prefer one contractor overseeing everything.
4. We were really tired of waiting and negotiating as we have made no headway the past 5 weeks.
5. We were supposed to be quoted at minimal profit, but it does not seem to be the case and it's not worth the trouble.
It was impossible to decline, no matter how hard we tried. I've never seen the husband so angry nor so fierce in the past 8 years together. In his words, 'it's like world war three is coming'. So he spent the week arguing with the MIL day and night, and he finally caved in and ask the relative for a quotation by the next day based on the carpentry work we required. The main point in contention is PVC vs laminates insides. MIL insists that PVC is bad and poisonous, although we really don't care nor mind.
We did get a 'quotation' the next day, which was pretty much exactly the same quote which was given to us 3 weeks ago, without any adjustments! It pissed me off, because we waited 2 hours to discuss the adjustments needed! After 3 weeks, we were still at the same place and no adjustments were done. Moreover, the husband asked explicitly for the quotation of that few carpentry items, but got a huge excel sheet instead. I'm not sure what went wrong, but it really wasn't working and both us us were really upset.
After receiving the 'quote' I wrote an email to all parties involved, asking for their understanding and respect no matter what decision we made. We decided not to use the relative afterall, since again, no quote was given for the carpentry and it wasn't cheap. The discounted quote came to 35k, but did not take into account any adjustments we wanted, does not include haulage and electricity nor the more expensive tiles It wasn't worth the trouble at all, and it's impossible to get our renovation done smoothly at this rate. It was not possible to go back to him - imagine how long more would it take to finalize all our works required. I shudder when I think of going through everything again. The husband called the relative and he seemed alright with it. Yet, the MIL continued arguing with the husband and insisted that they will match our contractor prices. *sigh. Both of us were really weary now, and I was like 'whatever, just let him do it if he can match the prices'. We were simply so sick of this - something so simple could be made so complicated with everyone feeling frustrated and upset. What's the point?
In the end, we drafted a contract with our exact requirements and price for them to sign within the same day. If we can't come to an agreement by Friday, we will confirm things with our contractor by Saturday. They did agree to our contract and we will only pay when we are satisfied with the works. The terms ain't bad and we have nothing to lose in a way, but it was really an unpleasant experience. The relative still commented that our contractor prices were expensive, although I don't think that it's fair to compare his own factory prices to our contractor who uses a sub-con. Similarly, our contractor's wet works were so much cheaper. But anyway, this was not solely about prices and our contractor's all-in price (at a healthy margin) was about 20% less compared to his price (at a supposedly minimal margin).
Meanwhile, our contractor, K was very understanding about our situation. He gave us 2 quotations, one with and one without carpentry. He even advised us to let the relative do it to avoid trouble. He also answered all my enquires about the materials he uses to achieve the look we wanted, although he knows that he'll not be doing our carpentry. He still volunteered to go down and coordinate things with our carpenter if needed. *sigh. Working with him is really enjoyable and effortless, and I'm really thankful to have found such a great contractor.
So, we finally did confirm everything by Saturday as the husband was flying off on Sunday. We marked out the electrical points and handed the flat to our contractor. We should be all set to start very soon!
I hope and pray that everything goes well from now on. I pretty much trust K to do our renovations well after seeing his workmanship and befriending his previous customers. Worst case senecio is having problems and delays with our carpentry and not having them done before the 7th month. Oh well, since I can't anticipate and prevent anything, I'm just going to enjoy the process and excitement for now. I'm totally relying on the husband to settle the carpentry side of things, and I wish not to be involved.
I guess one big take away from this saga is to avoid doing business with closed ones. Perhaps we shouldn't even have agreed to approach him at all.
But most importantly, both of us know that issues and arguments like this will not be the last when the MIL has such a character and insist on putting her leg into everything we do for whatever reason.
Thank god for giving us our own place! Otherwise, we probably wouldn't have got married and I'd rather stay single and buy my own place at 35 than move into his place. I totally anticipated issues like that and it's going to be pathatic if I'd rather stay out than go 'home'. *sigh. Why is everything so difficult? Sometimes it really feels like our lives is like a drama. It really takes all my faith and inner strength to stay sane during times like this.
For now, I'm going to immerse myself in renovations and enjoy this exciting period with the husband. =)
